Episode 221: Becoming a Better Coach - Leveraging Experts to Help Athletes
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Great coaches surround themselves with a team of experts and are not afraid to step back and let others play their roles.
So you’ve gone all-in and put your training in the hands of your coach.
It’s their role to build the framework of performance and provide clarity, accountability, and guidance through your evolution as an athlete.
But how does a coach evolve beyond education and experience to become a more effective pillar of support? How do they improve themselves and grow in order to help you, the athlete, thrive?
Matt answers that question with the help of Purple Patch Coach Mike Olzinksi and leading performance nutritionist, Scott Tindal, as they examine the role of mentorships in coaching.
Over the last year, Mike leveraged Scott’s nutrition expertise to help facilitate high performance in several of his athletes. They discuss the importance of that collaboration to the overall success of two Purple Patch athletes, Kinga Kimbrel and Elliot Block.
With the help of Mike and Scott, Kinga, relatively new to the sport of triathlon, finds perspective in training through a focus on her nutritional deficits, while Elliot defies the odds with a new approach to fueling.
Matt, Mike, and Scott provide insight on:
The hesitance of some coaches in seeking assistance outside of their realm of expertise.
(19:19) ”The coach is hired by the athlete and has this often internal burden that they carry that they need to have every answer to every question and expertise across every subject, which of course is a dangerous thing if you think that you really are a master of everything.”
Leveraging the benefits of knowledge in related fields to help drive performance and facilitate recovery.
(17:53) “Tweaks are required in order to get the best out of the athlete. And it's about providing solutions to the problems that we're presented with using the best available science, the best available evidence.”
The symbiotic relationship between nutrition coaching and performance training.
(48:43) “Nutrition shouldn't be viewed as like, Oh, I've got a nutrition program, and I've got a training program, they're just synonymous with each other. And if you want to do a really good training block, you're gonna need to fuel yourself appropriately.”
(39:18) Case Study: Kinga Kimbrel - The marriage of passion, potential, and science.
(56:14) Case Study: Elliot Block - Solving the protein problem.
Episode Timestamps
0:00-09:59 Introduction and Matt's Personal Picks
Purple Patch Blog - How to Race Effectively in Hot and Humid Conditions
Purple Patch Blog - Are You in a Broken Triathlon Coaching Relationship?
Purple Patch Athlete Case Study - Kinga Kimbrel
Learn More About Scott Tindal and FuelIn
The Purple Patch Center is Open - Learn More and Schedule a Visit
Purple Patch Website and Newsletter
10:14- The Meat and Potatoes - Leveraging Expertise to Expand Knowledge and Performance
Purple Patch and Episode Resources
This episode is sponsored by our collaboration with INSIDE TRACKER. Inside Tracker and Purple Patch - Receive 20% off their services with code: PURPLEPATCHPRO20
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Full Transcript
Matt Dixon 0:00
I'm Matt Dixon, and welcome to the Purple Patch podcast. The mission of Purple Patch is to empower and educate every human being to reach their athletic potential. Through the lens of athletic potential, you reach your human potential. The purpose of this podcast is to help time-starved people everywhere, integrate sport into life.
Matt Dixon 0:20
And welcome to the Purple Patch podcast. As ever, your host, Matt Dixon. Let me tell you something today about the very highest performance that I've ever worked with. The best athletes, CEOs, other C-level executives...What are some of their characteristics, some of their traits? But it might not surprise you to realize that they have the same parallel traits, and they always express themselves, but one of them is always present. The people that create enduring greatness, high performance, always value being coached. So it begs the question, what is good coaching? What's the value of a coach? Well, of course, a good coach can help build perspective, drive mission, build the framework of performance. On top of that a coach should be able to establish clarity, understanding, buy-in from the athlete or the leader, and then ultimately, hold that person to account to their observations. This is what we're going to focus on. And I am here to hold you to account. And as they go along the twisting, winding journey to high performance, whenever they go down the culdesacs of adversity and the roadblocks that they will inevitably face, a great coach will be able to provide perspective to help the athletes or the leader, get out of the room, come up a level and see the bigger picture. Now, it's interesting that at times of adversity or really stressful situations, it is when the coaches become the most valuable, because when an athlete or leader is really facing a challenge, and there's high stress, it's really tough for them to remember the tools that they have already innately developed to enable them to navigate. When an athlete really cares about something, and then they meet adversity, it's really tough for them to maintain clarity. And so the coach's role is to help to provide perspective and shift the mindset to something proactive. And so, that becomes really important. But then I ask you, as we come to today's show...so how does that coach, if that is their role, to be a person of strength of leadership to provide perspective to help a person hold to account, and to course-correct when things go wrong, how does that coach grow, improve, become more effective? The answer is not in textbooks. The first, is of course in experience. Wisdom is a great thing, and going through multiple experiences with individuals across levels, genders, ages, different types of challenges, there is nothing that can be replaced so far as wisdom. And of course, there's some further education that can help: reading, listening, studying, etc. But you know what the most powerful is? Mentorship. The coach surrounding themselves with experts in any given field. Great coaches always seek to surround themselves with a team of experts that they're not afraid to step back and allow those experts to play a role. A great coach facilitates meaningful connections that will support their athlete in thriving, achieving results. And that takes confidence. It takes a particular mindset. Many coaches are unable to do that. Either because of a little bit of insecurity and fear of getting found out, or believing wrongly that they are the ones that have to have all the answers and this concept about coaching development. This is what we're digging into today. And what we're going to do is a real-life case study of a great coach, someone that I've got a real lot of respect for, a Purple Patch coach, Coach Mike Olzinski, who has over the last year expanded their knowledge and their expertise as well as amplifying the results of their athletes - two of which we're gonna get into today - by leveraging an expert in their field. We are chatting to Purple Patch Coach Mike Olzinski and also get to welcome back the world nutrition expert Scott Tindal, the co founder of FuelIn. And what we're going to do today is dig into a lot of concepts around coaching, athlete development, self-improvement, as well as really understanding insights into how Mike practically helped several of his own athletes achieve results beyond anyone's expectations by simply adding a true expert in field Scott Tindal. So if you're a coach listening, this is do not miss but if you're an athlete listening, this is equally do not miss. It's all orbing around performance nutrition, and we're going to get into the nitty-gritty. We're going to talk about a couple of Mike's athletes so far as case studies, and it's going to be an exceptional episode, it's really high value. But before we get going, I do want to say a word about our partner InsideTracker. Because this is the vehicle that enables us to give you free, unabridged content that's going to help you in your performance. It is one of our most important partnerships because it is grounded in helping you guys, the athletes and of course fitness enthusiasts, optimize your return on your hard work. It's going to set you up for not just your best performance, but also longevity of performance across both sport and life. I want you to do what you love and love what you're doing for a long time. And I think that the insights and recommendations from the team at InsideTracker provide a sense of clarity and focus on the key elements that are going to help you excel. All you need to do is head to insidetracker.com/purple patch, and add the code purplepatchpro20, and of course you get 20% of everything at the store. If you want to accelerate these insights, reach out to us grab a coaching consultation from one of the team at Purple Patch, same email, as I mentioned before info@purplepatchfitness.com. Let us know that you want to schedule a consultation to go along with your InsideTracker assessment, and we'll get cracking. And so, without further ado, hold your breath, we need to do Matt's Newsings.
Matt Dixon 6:28
Yes, before we dig into the Meat and Potatoes, guys, I do want to bring you up to speed with a couple of things. The first, a couple of blogs that we just released, really, really valuable for competing athletes getting ready for events, they are on the website now. You can head to purplepatchfitness.com, go to the education tab, and under the blog their you can see it. They're all anchored around performance in heat. The first blog is really laying the stage, the environment, enabling you to understand what happens to your body, some of the challenges, that no matter how fit you are, you as an athlete will face if you tend to be training or competing, particularly in high heat and humidity. Because understanding what's going on, and therefore being able to set up a strategy to overcome that challenge, is absolutely critical. And that's a really valuable almost part one. Then the second component is - okay, let's get applied. How do we actually, before you're faced with that challenge, how do we prepare you to adapt and be ready to perform at a higher level despite the heat and humidity? Now for this, I got Scott Tindal involved from FuelIn. And I asked for his collaboration because collectively, Scott and I have a lot of experience in preparing athletes to perform in heat. And so we put together a guide that's really helpful, that's going to enable you, no matter what facilities you have, all you need to have is a hot bath, you can do some training in a hot environment to get you ready so that you can match your training potential with race day performance. It's free. I encourage you to head to the website, enjoy it. And of course, if you find it helpful, feel free to spread it out and share it with your friends and follow us on all the social media, Instagramables. Also, today in Matt's Musings, the Purple Patch center in San Francisco, yes, our performance center is open, and that means that you have three options. Number one, San Francisco people, you can come and join us for our small group coaching classes, as well as a suite of services in this wonderful spa light pristine center. It's very nice right in the heart of San Francisco. And you know what, if you come to a class, we can even grab a coffee following, although you might not want to do that because I end up puffering on about soccer or something else. For those of you guys that are not in San Francisco and your geographically dispersed, fear not, you can join those small group coaching classes via remote video link. Yes, technology is amazing. We even have some of the space shuttle astronauts up there joining us in some of the live sessions. It is live and on demand, and you can get involved, or of course you can also visit us. Small group coaching, sweat testing much of what we talked about in the blog there, orthopedic massage, bike fitting with the team from IOG, coaching and nutrition consultations and much more. You don't need to be a triathlete. You don't even need to be a Purple Patch athlete. All you need to be is someone that wants to improve and also is happy to have a little bit of fun. Head to purplepatchfitness.com or, of course, reach out info@purplepatchfitness.com. Spring us an email and we will be happy to help you with all of the information you need. Alright guys, no word of the week this week because it's really, really meaty. It's the meat and potatoes. Scott Tindal of FuelIn and the Purple Patch coach extraordinaire, senior coach, Coach Mike Olzinski. Guys, it's a cracker. I hope you enjoy. It is, the Meat and Potatoes.
Matt Dixon 10:14
Alright guys, it is the Meat and Potatoes. We've got a special one today. A conversation that I'm excited to have and I get to welcome back, well, Mike Olzinsky. Coach Mike Olzinsky. Purple Patch Coach Mike Olzinsky. Welcome back to the show. I should say Mike.
Mike Olzinski 10:30
Always an honor and a pleasure, Matt. Thanks for having me.
Matt Dixon 10:33
And we've got a little bit of a three way conversation going on here as well. We've got Scott from FuelIn, also I get to welcome back to the show. How ya doing Scotty?
Scott Tindal 10:43
Thanks, Matty. Very excited to be on this one. I think it's going to be a great, great topic of conversation for everyone out there.
Matt Dixon 10:50
This is a juicy coach's conversation here. We're going to talk a little bit, we're actually going to put the spotlight a little bit on you today, Mike and we're going to talk about your experience your growth and how you have developed as a coach. But we're going to anchor it around your work that you actually did with Scott and the FuelIn program. And so this is really around nutrition and we're going to go into some case studies, and I think it's gonna be a fascinating conversation for athletes but also for coaches that listen, we do have a lot of coaches that listen here. So I'm excited. And I guess, as we dive into the questions that I've got for for both of you guys, I think I want to frame it first, because we're talking about Purple Patch Coach Mike Olzinsky partnering with Scott, who is a world expert in nutrition, and developing as a coach. But I want to ground listeners here, because it's not like we are bringing a puppy into the coaching world. I want to bring forward to the listeners some of your expertise Mike, and some of the things I've talked about. So firstly, from an educational background standpoint, you have a master's degree in exercise science. You've been coaching under the Purple Patch umbrella directly with me in San Francisco for more than 10 years now. You're leading your own track program, very, very successful track program in San Francisco. You've joined me on more than 10 Purple Patch camps already, and are now the lead in those camps, on all of the strength and conditioning and all of the running program. For three years, you lead our swim program, our Sunday Swim program, with some of the strongest amateur swimmers in the sports. And individually, you have already coached more than 200 athletes to a host of great success, including some professional athletes and one that I particularly like that maybe we'll touch on a little bit today, a professional ultra trail runner out of the UK, who's a wonderful athlete, but we aren't going there. And the reason I want to start with that today is that we're talking about coaching development, and to me, as I read through that little checklist of a mini bio in a way, you are a fricking established experienced coach, and yet, here we are talking about development. And I think that's important because, as I often say, as soon as we think we know that we've got it all sussed out, it's time to retire. And so let me lead off with a question, Mike. Can you, in simple terms, can you outline how and and why you decided to bring in Scott, particularly to work with the couple of athletes that you that you really anchored in. I know it's been more than two athletes. But what was the decision point around working with Scott and bringing FuelIn as a part of your coaching journey?
Mike Olzinski 13:41
Well, first off, I'd love to say thank you. I would love to just carry you around with me and introduce me everywhere I go from now on. That was a wonderful introduction. Thank you. But, I 100%, 110%, 150% agree with what you said. Like the second that we are no longer curious or looking to learn about our field or about things that can impact our field, I think it really is time to hang it up. And I have a wonderful robust background and physiology, and I even did a nutrition certification back in the day as a personal trainer, but in no way do I ever think I'm an expert, world class expert, in the field of nutrition. It's just not where I spend every day of my life reading and talking to people. I'm a coach. So the first thing that really comes to mind working with Scotty and the FuelIn team is, they are world class experts. And the science and the research capacity that we have, the technology that we're able to dig into in that field is just rapid, it's moving fast. They're developing things overnight, it seems, and I just can't keep up with that kind of science. Which, I would love to. If I really do want to talk about something I want to have an understanding of it. And with all the athletes I coach and with the racing and the programming and scheduling, and then spending time in person with people, there's just no way. There's not enough time in the day for me to truly understand everything like Scott and Elizabeth and their entire team do. So, it's just, it really is helpful to me as a coach to be able to trust in them.
Matt Dixon 15:30
And I guess similar question to Scott. Mike sort of framed it so well. And I think one of the things that Mike highlighted by the way there is, this is a fast moving conveyor belt of of understanding around sports nutrition, and what is happening I mean. In our prior episode, Scott, we talked about how in the last five years, my whole perception and prescription around nutrition and fueling has really evolved. Of all of this, of all of the sort of "sciences around performance", it's one of the ones that is emerging so much. I'd love, Scott, for you to think about, or you to share, how you see your role in this type of thing where you've got athletes that are being led by Mike, a coach, how do you fit into that? What's the mindset set there? And the reason I asked this first is because you yourself know plenty about the broader world of performance. You've worked with professional teams across many sports. You could probably coach an athlete yourself 100%. So what's your role when you're working with a coach, and an athlete, such as Mike.
Scott Tindal 16:37
Thanks Matty. Very kind words as well. I think we should just put you in our pocket. Look, I think anytime someone like myself can assist the primary coach and help deliver a program that ultimately improves the life of the athlete, then that's my role. And, you know, in the case of like working with you, with Mikey, with the athletes at Purple Patch, that's what I'm personally trying to do, and that's what FuelIn is trying to do, is to assist you guys in making sure that the athlete performs at their absolute best. And, you know, I'm happy to play that supporting role, to work with the coach and with the athlete, to improve those areas that, you know, have been identified as potential weaknesses or areas that require attention and can be improved. Whether that's from a health perspective, leading into a performance perspective, or purely from a high performance perspective, because, you know, the health of the athlete is actually pretty dialed in. So, you know, my role is about delivering some immediate actionable takeaways for the athlete and the coach, that creates some sort of impact. Beyond that, it's about communication, being open to making program work for everyone. We at FuelIn have processes and principles that we follow. And these work. We also know that every athlete is an individual. And that, you know, tweaks are required in order to get the best out of the athlete. And it's about providing solutions to the problems that were presented with using the best available science, the best available evidence, as Mikey said, and changes rapidly, you know. Trying to stay on top of that is a job in itself. And then, you know, sprinkling in the practical knowledge and experience that we've got. And that's really, you know, what it's all about, isn't it? It's about bringing together the knowledge of what we've got with the knowledge of coaches like Mikey and yourself, coming up with a plan and then executing that plan?
Matt Dixon 18:29
Well, it's funny, because that's one of the things that I've noticed working with, with a lot of different experts, and we're talking about nutrition today, working with you, is the outcome I think should be for someone like me, someone like Mike, the coach is to upskill a little bit. And I think it's important that you're not, you tend to not just bring expertise to the athlete, but the outcome should be and I think we're really dig in and try and chew on this a little bit today, but the outcome should be that Mike doesn't have to go to school to work this. There's a knowledge transfer going on at the same time. And staying with you, Scott, there's a natural hesitation for coaches, to bring in additional experts in field. And I feel, I observed that it's, it's really sort of one or two reasons that this sometimes happens. The first is, the coach is hired by the athlete and has this often internal burden that they carry that they need to have every answer to every question and expertise across every subject, which of course is a dangerous thing if you think that you really are a master of everything, but understand where it comes from. And secondly, they think there's some time there's a potential threat that they feel, you know, am I going to look silly? Am I not gonna look smart enough or they're going to try and grab my clients? I'd love your thoughts for the coach that either feels like they need every answer or it looks at someone like yourself as a threat for a better, better lack of a better phrase.
Scott Tindal 19:59
Yeah, I mean And hopefully, hopefully not a threat, and hopefully a, you know, an asset, I guess is hopefully the way that I would be viewed to, more importantly, the athlete as well. And I think like, you know, what you're describing it does happen. And although I feel extremely lucky to be surrounded by coaches, like yourself, like Mikey, who do not attempt to do it all. And, you know, the best coaches, in my experience, are those who accept their limitations and are willing to ask for some help. And that doesn't exclude me either. Like you know, yes, I have a lot of knowledge in nutrition, but, my God, I'm so far from, you know, being like what I would regard as the best in the world, there are so many smarter people out there that I lean on, and read their research and take from that, you know, to try and upskill me and asking questions to other nutrition experts. Absolutely. You know, if I'm worried about sounding stupid, then I've got, I've got a major issue. So, you know, if you do not have the confidence to ask for assistance, then you're probably blagging it in first place, because you do not want to be found out. That might sound pretty harsh, but it's often the case. And, you know, the reality is, when it's a team effort with multiple brains and sets of eyes on the prize, the results are better, and the athlete benefits the most. And it requires work, it requires effort, yet, you know, in a sport like triathlon with so much planning occurs from a day to day week to week perspective, it's hard. It's too hard to manage on your own. Like I...hats off to any coach out there who, like firstly, is planning, not just running or biking, but you're planning, you know, and the swimming, you're planning all three, you're putting that together in a week, over the course of a month and months looking at, you know, it's scheduling that and then someone's saying, "Oh, what about my nutrition?", on top of that. "And what about my strength and conditioning?", and all this. It's like, it's just overwhelming. I don't, I actually don't understand how coaches do it all by themselves.
Matt Dixon 22:01
I gotta jump in. I love this because you said this - blagging it. So I'm going to, I'm going to translate for the Americanos here on what that is...it's alright. That's uh, all of the English go, "yeah he's a frickin blagger." And the Aussies and all the Commonwealth countries get it. But, think about that as as The Wizard of Oz a little bit for the American listeners. So in other words, behind the veil of expertise, there's a there's a very soft yolk in there. And in fact, for for coaches, we talked, in the last few weeks, we've done a few components around coaching mistakes and red flags for athletes. And one of the things that's a red flag, and this is a complete tangent on today's show, but I think it's worth bringing up is, is a coach that never wants to explain the reasoning behind the prescription, why they're doing what the plan is, and instead just says, trust the plan, follow the plan. That's also a red flag similar to this of someone that doesn't want to go and get expertise or except that there are experts in the world that can really bring more to the athlete. That's a little bit of a Wizard of Oz, or in Scotty's words as would do it - blagging it. Which is fantastic. And I think that's a lovely segue into the time to sink into the meat and potatoes of this a little bit.
Scott Tindal 23:19
I just wanted to jump in on that Matty as well. And just that emphasis on the WHY. I just cannot emphasize that enough. Like, the best athletes I've ever worked with are those, are the ones who challenged me and asked the why. And yeah, it's sometimes easier when you're working 1-on-1 you know, with them that you would, the athletes who do work one on one, I'm sure you guys have experienced this as well, the ones who lean in, and I love again, I don't know if I need to explain leaning in, but everyone gets that, but yeah, those who like don't just expect to be coached and like go, "oh yeah, okay I'm 1-on-1 and everything's great. Now, I'm being coached 1-on-1", like, ask the questions, why you're doing stuff, because then you're going to learn more about what's actually happening, and then understand it. So beyond that 1-on-1 coaching, you suddenly get it. And today is a great example of that because, the two people we're going to talk about, leant in hard, you know, both Kinga and Elliot, you know, they they wanted to learn and understand why they were doing it. And, you know, they've managed to take that beyond, you know, that one on one coaching that we had. So, yeah, again, it's a good segue in.
Matt Dixon 24:31
It's a good segue. Let's dig in. Let's bring Mikey back into the conversation and ironically Mike to kick this off. Before we had the show, I thought, how am I gonna frame this? How do I want to talk about developments? So I decided to actually start at the end a little bit, because over the last year or so, you've worked in depth with Scott specifically with a few athletes. I'm going to dive into a couple of them today. They're names are Kinga and Elliot. But let's start at the end. I want to go to outcomes. As you reflect on your journey with Scott over the last year or so, what are some of the lessons, or some of the evolution that you felt in perspective, from bringing Scott into the puzzle?
Mike Olzinski 25:12
Yeah, definitely, I definitely believe what we kind of hinted at earlier where like, I am upskilled. I feel like my education has been continuing or like, you know, some of the, the fields that we work in require credits, you know, classroom time or webinars seminars, I feel like every time I have an athlete that works with that team, the whole interaction, and the program or plan that comes out of it is continuing education credit for me, like, I absolutely feel like I'm learning new things. And not just from reading it or listening to it, but applying it and seeing the outcomes happening, talking to the athlete days after they do these sessions, or practice or racing. It's just really fantastic. It feels like real world experience. And it truly, truly helped me facilitate decisions in the process for helping and coaching these athletes. It really, really is helpful.
Matt Dixon 26:15
So let's get tangible a little bit, because that's a great perspective. And so far, we haven't provided anything to the listeners of like, okay, you know, what, what does that really mean? So I'd love you to outline two to three key lessons. Like if you think about everything that you learned. What two or three of the things that you learned from Scott, that you feel really enabled you to help the athlete? So I want to get a little granular here.
Mike Olzinski 26:40
This is a good one. And I've trained and been an athlete in the past. And you know, I pretend to be one at night sometimes. But I've always found this fascinating and difficult. So if I do, I imagine most athletes out there and coaches out there would have a difficult time. It's integrating what you eat into your training program. I think those are two silos that exists a lot in the in the training and coaching world, having a great nutrition plan, which they're out there, there's great books, there's great material you can read to eat really healthy. And then there are great training programs and great coaches. What we've been working on, and what I really have been learning from, is blending them together, blending them together. Knowing how to adjust your caloric intake, your macros on the weekly level based on the intensity and duration of the coaching that I prescribe. It's fantastic. I find it interesting. And Scott has a really nice system that I like, it breaks it down, distills it, makes it simple. It's like the light system, red light, yellow light, green light. You know, we can talk about that more later. But it's just, it's nice. If I'm having a conversation and athletes got a four and a half hour bike ride tomorrow, I'm like, "Hey, guess what? Good for you. Green light day. Wonderful. Aren't you happy?", you know, and we bring that into the conversation.
Matt Dixon 28:08
So do you feel like it's sort of created a common language for where you're sort of integrating and tying them together is what you're sayin, but it's, it's sort of a language. Because I gotta say, like, in the past working with, and this is going back into history, I think I struggled with that as well. They almost felt mutually exclusive. And they were happening as two sides of the same track, but they weren't as one. And so, so I guess that makes a lot of sense to me that you started to build an appreciation and thinking about training load with how you set up nutrition.
Scott Tindal 28:42
But, and I think what Mike has touched on there is so important that silo, which, and just so everyone understands that when we talk about silos in sport, you know, and it so often occurs is where, you know, the coaches saying one thing, or the trainer saying one thing, the nutritionist is saying another, the athletes hearing two things and not understanding and then trying to translate what's been said from the nutritionist or dietitian to the coach and the what the coach is saying back to the nutritionist and, that common language and trying to decipher them and trying to break that down so that everyone is talking that same language and in what Mike is explaining there is that, I love the fact that when like an athlete says all beauty it's a Green Day. And Mikey knows exactly what that means. He's like, okay, it's higher carb. And he understands why it's higher carb and the athlete understands why it's higher carb, because tomorrow or on that day, they've got intensity and duration that requires higher fueling. And it's so easy then to talk in colors and just understand that and it just makes life so much easier. Where there there there is that common language between everyone and Mikey could question is like, "Why is there a red day here?", to me and I immediately know what he's talking about and the athlete knows what they're talking about as well. So I think it is, like, you know, just touching on that common sort of language is so important whether, and whatever system exists between coach and nutritionist and athlete, that that system has to be developed in order for success to be achieved.
Matt Dixon 30:19
Okay, all right, Mike, I asked for two or three, you gave me one. So I'm gonna hold you to account here. All right, good.
Mike Olzinski 30:26
That's a such a good one I really like impacts me a lot, because that's what I was looking for when I wanted to train back in the day, and it's just really great. But now there is just as really, this is one of the science ones going back to what we said in the beginning. What athletes can consume, within a training session, and within racing, has been completely rewritten in my brain from working with with, with Scotty. It's something where I always was kind of on the lower side, and I'll speak specifically about carbohydrate. And just even from your guys's conversation, Matt and Scott's podcast before, like, it's just really starting to sink in, and I'm starting to see it more practically just more and more, and it's fabulous. Eating, you know, for anywhere from 50 to 90 or more grams of carbohydrates in an hour, is something I would have thought was ridiculous years ago. I thought, that's way too much, you're gonna just have stomach problems, this and that. And there's a threshold, I think. And with the training and practicing and training the gut, I'm starting to see people are not only training and executing their workouts and races better, but they're recovering better. And it's the same thing that we've talked about for years and years, you're not just taking carbs on board to hit your time in this interval, but you're taking it on board so your muscles and blood have the substance they need after the workout to start the regeneration process. And it's just fabulous. I'll use a quick example because, I again, I would have done something different had it been pre COVID even, three or four years ago. I ran a marathon in December, and luckily, you guys did your podcast and we're doing education before it, because I think I was taken like 80 grams of carbs an hour, maybe more, plus salt, plus water, plus a little bit in a drink. I think that was three times more than I would have taken had I had it been three years ago. So, I maybe took seven gels instead of three. And I felt good. Obviously, I'm a donkey dipped in cement compared to other marathoners out there, but the point is I felt really good. Had a good finish the day after I felt fine and uh...
Scott Tindal 32:54
I have no idea what...what did you say then a donkey what?
Matt Dixon 32:58
A donkey dipped in cement. It's a Dixon-ism, I'm afraid Scott it's one of my many sayings. But I say that and I actually gave him dagger eyes on the video version of this because he he lays me over his knee with a wooden spatula and beats me every time that he goes for a run. He has been very, very humble here. Most people listening when you're, you're not just a sub three hour, you're on minutes and minutes and minutes and minutes and half an hour under that three hour target. So uh, so uh, but yeah, it's a good example. And I have to say, Scott, uh Mike, that it's, I was exactly the same. In fact, I was so cautious around GI distress that I would always try and delay consuming calories as long as I could because, and then try and minimize them and go under the radar much of which we talked with my prior shows with with Scott. And it's just been a revolution. Start early, start big, and no GI distress getting, once you get that pardon the pun, but the recipe right with the the fluids, it's actually amazing. And also training your gut to be able to do it which which obviously you mentioned there. Okay, so that's a really tangible stuff and very helpful. It's funny, quite parallel, I think, to a lot of the education that I got, I remember starting with Scott, it's my turn to go up on stage now a little bit. But I remember when we started working with each other and had an argument, a professional argument, not a personal argument around consumption of carbohydrate. And I said to Scott that he was absolutely bonkers thinking that, triathletes could consume 100 to 110 grams per hour. And yet here we have many of my athletes that I coach doing exactly that, so um, so I'm with you. So what I'd like to do is ask Scott now, a little bit on the education side. This is about upskilling, about coaching development. I think we've got a great picture of what Mike's doing. How do you as an expert in field manage the education of the athlete and setting up their plan, but also assessing, hang on, there's another sort of cog in the wheel here. And how do you assess how much the coach already knows and where it is best to lead your support, where they need your support? Is that, Is there a process you go through on that?
Scott Tindal 35:18
Yeah, I guess. I think some of its already moderated by the coach, isn't it? Because the coach has probably done some due diligence on me and, and what fuel in is and understands that. And so, you know, prior to starting work, I mean, if, let's be honest, if if they're a big believer in probably, you know, high fat, low carb as the only way to run a marathon, then they're probably going to stay away from me, because that's probably not what I'm going to suggest is the right way to do it. So I think the principles have to align, firstly, and it is accepted that, you know, we're the experts in nutrition and the coach is the expert in training. Wer'e obviously all open to questioning what's happening from a nutrition planning perspective, and vice versa, from a training perspective. And I think that open dialogue is, is so important. And, you know, you mentioned there about a healthy argument, slash...I don't remember an argument, but I remember a healthy discussion.
Matt Dixon 36:15
No a discussion. Yes. Yeah.
Scott Tindal 36:18
But you know, again, like, you know, to your, credit to you Matty, and that, you know, someone with your expertise, you are open to actually exploring a different way of thinking and doing something different, because you were able...maybe it will work. And you know, the really cool thing, like what Mike is talking about there, and you know, he's an experienced, here again, give yourself credit, Mikey, you know, you're not just an okay runner, you're an excellent runner, like, you know, your marathon is amazing. And you are open to trying something different, despite being an excellent athlete. And because you were willing to say, well, maybe there is something to this. The science is catching up with what we've been doing now for a few years in terms of pushing carbohydrate consumption. And you're seeing these studies come out now, where they are showing 120 grams of carbs can be, you know, with great carbohydrate oxidation, zero to limited GI distress through repeated carbohydrate fueling and training the gut and you know, those physiological changes, and the perception changes in the brain, these are all happening and making the athlete better. So, you know, it's, it's got to be two-way and it's got to be openness, it's got to be willingness to try things. And same for me, like, you know, if the coach is like, why are you doing this? Could we try this? Absolutely. Let's try it. Let's give it a go. And see what happens. And I think that's really important as well.
Matt Dixon 37:44
I think your point there, the sentence you used, the science is catching up with the coaching in many ways, the nutrition coaching, that, I think that happens all the time in sport, and a lot of people say, I coach by science, well, I hope not. I hope you're informed by science. But if you're coached by science, you're gonna be behind the curve because, it's experts in field, it's coaches. They're actually pushing the boundaries. And I remember a conversation I had with Andy Blow from Precision (Fuel and) Hydration. Kyla had a very similar one with me and yourself. Many, many conversations where it's like this is happening. It doesn't matter what the peer-reviewed researchers say, this is happening. Look at these case studies. And, and so sometimes quite often, it does have to catch up. I mentioned a case study, maybe we should dive in because I think that's a great arena of learning. So a question for both of you guys is let's dive in with Kinga. So this is an athlete, that Mike has coached for a long time. And perhaps, Mike, you can kick us off because I think this is a great story of an athlete, that, it's going to highlight how much change you can elicit in ultimately what all of us are after, which is performance. And, and that's a broad term, of course at the sporting level going faster, but it goes well beyond that in this. It's a wonderful story. So I think all athletes are going to want to listen to this one for sure. Why don't you just paint the picture of who Kinga is as an athlete, Mike, from a coach's lens.
Mike Olzinski 39:18
Well, she's wonderful. And I'll name her properly. Her name is Kinga but to me, she's Queen-ga. She is the queen. You know, she, she actually came in as a pretty young athlete. Meaning training young. Like, her first 5k was in 2016. First 5k. Like, you know, the typical entry into racing for most athletes. She was a very good chess player in the past.
Matt Dixon 39:51
Really?
Mike Olzinski 39:51
Yeah.
Matt Dixon 39:51
Interesting.
Mike Olzinski 39:52
I would not mess with her in chess, that's for damn sure. But she, she just came in just as a very... one of the qualities that I really admire about athletes, is really curious, really curious athlete. Was struggling getting through the entire race, like how she could do it. And I think she did have some good natural talent. But putting it all together, never really grew up learning how to train or messing with it, so it was, just wasn't really feeling like she was doing it right. And that's when she came to us. She had done a couple of race, had had some good results, but then getting into 70.3 It was tough, not really closing. And that's when we met. And she's up in Seattle,
Matt Dixon 40:42
Up in Seattle physically gifted, young, naturally strong, clearly leaving performance potential on the table. And, and then I think there's a point as well, two points, I guess. Firstly, curious, that's a real positive, but secondly, lacking experience, wisdom, and actually physiological wisdom, so sort of pretty new to the game as well. And I knew she was a triathlete. Yes, she's done an Ironman 70.3. And she, she, she was really ambitious by memory. So she wanted to qualify for 70.3 worlds if I'm right and strong runner. I've seen her at a training camp, but often imploded on the run. Was that correct?
Mike Olzinski 41:25
Yeah. Very good on the bike. Learning to swim. She had great bike times. And the race before we started working together, I think was, was correct me if I'm wrong Kinga, but I think it was Cozumel. And I think she ran a 2:10, after having a really strong first, you know, two-thirds of the race, and just felt bad, imploded a little bit on the run and that was kind of the last straw for her if I remember correctly.
Matt Dixon 41:53
All right. So we've got her sort of straying towards elite pointy end of the age group field, let's call it that. In potential but not realizing it. And like I said, So then I'll throw it over to Scott, because you came in Scott and were brought in and obviously there was a goal of, and this is where we get really granular, I hope, but I'd love your observations of the Kinga that you met, and review and maybe take us through that process a little bit. And across all areas that you think are relevant for listeners.
Scott Tindal 42:25
Yeah, I think what Mikey said about their curiosity, as well is really important. She was very curious, but she was also willing to be coached. And I think that's a really important point, as well as she wasn't just there for some pointers, she actually wanted to be coached and, and improve. And we went through that process of it, you know, fortunately, or unfortunately, it probably takes a certain type of person, I think, in triathlon with nutrition, because a lot of it is about repetition. And Kinga was very good at being repetitious in what we were doing. And so, you know, we talked about with her in particular, you know, like every athlete, we established some baselines and sort of established her priorities and her goals. In her opinion, she was probably a little bit heavy. And I certainly wouldn't say she was too heavy. But as a result of improving her nutrition, and her daily nutrition and performance, nutrition, she ended up losing around four kilograms, and most of that was in body fat. And that was quantified through DEXA scan. So she had repeat DEXA scans across the time that we work together. And that was quite impressive in terms of, her body composition changed significantly with a reduction in body fat, but maintenance of lean muscle mass. She certainly didn't have an understanding of her sweat rate, so the amount of fluid that she was losing on the bike or the run at different temperatures, and what sort of intake she should be doing on the bike or run in order to maintain a decent level of body weight loss, you know, somewhere, we always said it's acceptable to lose between two and 3% body weight by the end of the race. I think, in the end, we established that her bike consumption was around point seven liters per hour, which is effectively one bottle per hour, and on the run slightly higher amount. And again, with her sodium concentration that we worked out, it was fairly average, and she took in somewhere between, you know, 500 and 600 milligrams per liter, but that was dialed in over time, through repetition, again, doing repeated sweat testing, weighing herself before every session, weighing herself after session, recording what she consumed in terms of fluids and managing that appropriately. Recording that. And at the time, we were doing this, this was all through Google Sheets, recording that information and being diligent about recording the data that I wanted to see. She had no formal carbohydrate training in terms of gap training what Mikey and you were just talking about before, so she didn't understand how much carbohydrates were possible to be consumed on the bike or on the run. And I can give an example in January. So January last year, when we started, she was consuming 20 grams an hour, by March, and we're talking in late January, by March 21, just a couple of months later, she was up to 75 grams an hour. And that was on the bike and leading into the run, which, which was significant for her in terms of you know, you have a three-fold increase in exogenous carbohydrate intake, it, you know, the results speak for itself, I mean, she suddenly felt strong, she, she could finish the bike really, really strongly. But the run off the bike became the difference where she could finish the run in the way in which Mikey would expect her to finish that. And that that was, you know, significant. I think the biggest turning point for her was probably her carbohydrate intake, in training, and practicing at race pace, her carbohydrate intake, working out what carbohydrates suited her in terms of what forms so when for her it was, you know, blocks and gels as opposed to a liquid carbohydrate, managing fluids with water and electrolytes as opposed to a highly concentrated carbohydrate solution. And then managing her carbohydrates on the run, which again, was just went down to gels. And then using water as she went through aid stations,
Matt Dixon 46:38
There are three things that really bubbled up there for me, so I want to go through them. The first is, is I think something that's interesting or the emotional side of things. So I want to make it clear to listeners here, Kinga didn't join, and Scott or Mike won't say, "You need to get down in your body weight." There was no dieting going on here. And I guess the first two points are married together, because so many athletes do get frustrated by their own body composition, and think "I've got to get down to race weight. So I've got to go on a diet to do it." And number one, they view carbohydrates as the enemy. And the story that you just weaved there, was there was really positive shifts in body composition. But by embracing and in fueling, a three-fold increase, I think that's really, really interesting on that side of stuff. The second thing, which, which you mentioned there that I really want to bubble up, I've been thinking about this point for a long time where people I believe, think of...let's go outside of Kinga for a second, they think of adding considerations around equipment, or adding nutrition in a meaningful way, as something that's on top of their training. So can I get 102%? Can I get 104%? But what you said there was Mike's delivering this training that is creating, through the program and her adherence to it, a trained potential, and you coming in and making these changes enabled, Mike, the coach, and Kinga to get that full yield of the training. So it allows the program to do what it's supposed to do, rather than being anchored down. Is that a fair enough comment on that side?
Scott Tindal 48:37
Yeah, I think that's the best way of thinking about it. So it's actually making me think about it because the nutrition shouldn't be viewed as like, Oh, I've got a nutrition program, and I've got a training program, they're just synonymous with each other. And if you want to do a really good training block, you're gonna need to fuel yourself appropriately. And it's something like, you know, and even beyond Kinga, and it's been a lot of learning since then working with other athletes is like, and I was listening to actually the head trainer for Kristian Blummenfelt on a podcast, and he was talking about this as well. And it's like, you have to fuel. You have to fuel for what you're trying to achieve. And I think there is this overarching, like desire for people to reduce body composition. And actually, I mean, you look at Kristian, when I mean, you can't tell me he looks like the standard, you know, triathlete at the moment does he. Like I mean, his body comp is not like emaciated, like, you know, 6% body fat. I mean, he's carrying a bit if you wanted to say that and I mean that in the nicest possible way, but it's also lovely to see that you have a high performing athlete, clearly fueled up to his eyeballs and training extremely hard and you listen to his head trainer all over talking about it. It's like they eat. They eat consistently and they eat with a purpose to perform, and to Kinga's point, like she...yes, she did go through a process of reducing, probably she did reduce some calories throughout the time. And that resulted in, you know, being in a caloric deficit, and that results in weight loss. But then once she got to that point, it was all about fueling for the purpose of going really, really quickly. Yeah. And being able to match, you know, her energy expenditure was there, therefore, and her energy intake was designed to match what Mikey was delivering as a training program.
Matt Dixon 50:33
One more question I have is for curiosity because we talked all about carbohydrates, but I see a lot of athletes under-consuming protein as well, commonly. What, was that just, just for interest? Was that a part of the puzzle at all?
Scott Tindal 50:49
Yeah, and Kinga is probably no different from, I would probably say, 90% of female athletes that we get, we see, especially endurance athletes working with that, you know, her daily consumption was I was going back through it, and it was less than 100 grams a day, you know, we immediately put her on to I think, it was on average, around 130 grams a day, and she's a 58-kilo athlete. So that equates to about, you know, just over two grams per kilo of body weight. And that I believe that has a significant impact. And it had a significant impact not only on body composition but also had a significant impact on her ability to recover. Because protein is going to allow, in terms of muscular recovery, tendon, bone, it's offsetting, you know, that degradation, I guess that that breakdown, that is occurring from repetitive trauma, which is effectively the training that's getting provided. And so the combination of the higher protein intake with the higher carbohydrate intake, and specifically providing higher amounts of carbohydrates during the sessions or for the sessions, that required carbohydrates, that I think is what makes the difference, and it doesn't make the difference in one session. It's again, it's about repetition, and she was consistently good at being consistent. And I think that that's such an important thing. I actually, I was reading I don't know if you know, Bill Walsh, he was the San Francisco...He said that it's like, consistently, what was it? Consistently being consistent is one of the hardest things to achieve. That's what she did.
Matt Dixon 52:30
I want to ask Mike, because you know, people think about a coach is, we just talked in last week's show, about a couple of weeks ago, about the role of a coach. The value of a coach. And at one level, it's prescription, but another side of it is, is holding an athlete to account holding perspective, et cetera. So how did how did you help Kinga adopt and apply? Or was it just easy was Kinga one of the quote easy ones?
Mike Olzinski 52:56
It's funny you mention that, because as Scott is discussing that and talking about it, what is brilliant was that we never had that conversation. Kinga and I didn't have to talk about that. Like I would check in it's like maybe you say one or two sentences, like how you feeling? How's your energy? Eat enough? "Yeah, feel good, all is well. And what I would notice is just stringing the weeks together. And kind of like you said, like the consistency of being consistent. We just, we weren't running into any issues with that. And I was giving her full weeks as a full-time employee at a very big company. And she was absorbing it really well. And we would talk about that. And we would talk about, like, getting ready to do these races, getting prepared in the mindset together. Didn't have to quiz her or hit her up about if she's recovering well, or if she's getting enough carbs into fuel or brick workouts on the weekend. She already was doing it was all good. It was a stress lifted off of me. Like I trust that she's doing this right because of the program.
Matt Dixon 54:09
Also I'll say, I think you did a good job, it's important because you do mention she's a very big...very large company. And the definition of time-starved as well. One of the key aspects was decluttering focus. So she was really, really good on this element. Because this was a focus that we, or you -- not me, shone a light on, and that's where the focus was, but that could become paralyzed if you're also just getting distracted with what Jenny's doing and what the new equipment is, there some new fad diet, but it actually narrows down focus and creates an output on something valuable. So so I guess what, Mike, give us, give us the very quick, give us the bullets of what the outcome was for this athlete, and then we'll move on to Elliott.
Mike Olzinski 54:57
I see that Kinga went from being a participant to a racer, and where she was kind of finishing races and had some good results, now she is finishing and racing to the very last meter. And I mean to literally like, I think one of our races up in Washington last year, it was between her and one of her friends, to the wire. I mean, if it was if they were starting at the same time, it would have been a sprint finish. But the because of the time delays it was, but it came down to seconds. Her BHAG, which was the Big, Hairy, Audacious Goal that she had, was going sub 445 in the 70.3. And that was something she didn't really even think was on the table last year. She did it twice last year. Well, one time officially, even though the swim was really fast up in Oregon. But she smoked it. And then one time by one minute missed it at Washington. And that was official. So I just, and she's qualified for the worlds. But not only is she qualified, I think that she is absolutely 100% going to compete at the World Championships. And I do you think that is something that she's going to be excited about.
Matt Dixon 56:14
So let's move on to Elliot. And because I am glad that you guys chose two athletes here that are very, very different. And so Elliott Block, now sunning himself in Maui now I think he lives, formally of Sacramento. But he's out there. 61 years of age. Got a long history of endurance sports, and endurance sport as being not just triathlon, ultra marathons. I mean, this guy goes the journey.
Mike Olzinski 56:47
RAAM, all the big bike rides.
Matt Dixon 56:51
So this is a guy that has he, I mean, he could easily be one of those nuggety old guys that seen it all and is a closed book of evolution and growth. This is how I do it. He was, you were guiding him for Ultra Man. And, I think this is really important for listeners. It's not about the days of Ultra Man. It's about preparing for Ultra Man, that's step one, and then successful integration. And I guess that the challenge is, how do you prepare? And how do you then not get depleted when you're 61 years of age? And then how do you set up the logistical part of fueling? Is that an accurate sort of challenge that you guys face?
Mike Olzinski 57:34
Absolutely. I think it started because this was a three-year journey because of COVID. It was canceled and delayed. And I believe it really started...and Elliot, wonderful. Talk about curious, what a wonderfully curious person. It started when we were training for the first go around. And having some of these weeks where we just were, you know, practicing getting that layout of an Ultra Man. And he was just smashed, just smoked smashed. Completely under fueled, I'm sure in all sorts of ways. And we were talking about it, it's like, I don't think that we can do an Ultraman without changing something about this plan. And that's kind of what brought that up.
Matt Dixon 58:18
I think we need to establish what is Ultra Man how many days and what does include?
Mike Olzinski 58:22
Ultra Man is three days stage ultra triathlon, starting with a day 1, 10K Swim. 10k Swim, 10,000 meters in the open water, followed by a 90-mile bike. So that's a transition workout. Day two is a complete 170-mile bike ride. Day three is a double marathon. So 52.4 miles run.
Matt Dixon 58:50
And they don't have to do it in one day...
Mike Olzinski 58:51
They get three days to do it. Nothing.
Matt Dixon 58:56
All right. So give us your observations around Eliot, Scott as the expert coming in. This is because I think there's some really interesting specifics here.
Scott Tindal 59:05
Yeah, I mean, Elliott, what a what an interesting athlete and what a fantastic...I think that the easiest thing to say about him is that he's just a fantastic person to work with because he was open as well. And I think there is that common theme of just openness and willingness. So he's a vegetarian athlete, as well, which I think immediately when I probably, you know, I was like, Oh, he's vegetarian. He's trying to do an Ultraman. This, this could spell disaster, but he was very open to adjusting his diet, within the realms of what he wanted to, you know, based on his ethical choices and his moral choices around being a vegetarian, but he was open to adjusting that in order to meet the purpose of what he was trying to achieve. So we saw with him he was taking not enough protein and I think not just from an endurance athlete perspective, but also given his age. As we age, we do go through this process of sarcopenia. Sarcopenia being the progressive loss of muscle as we age, and, you know, if you're not taking in adequate amounts of protein, then that process can be accelerated. So I think a big learning for him and him being very conscious of that he was like "Well, I don't want to be, you know, I don't want to be this old man with no muscles." So he bought in very quickly to that. And he, to his credit, he, you know, is open to eating fish as well, so he did start to increase his fish consumption, but purposely went about increasing his protein consumption through plant-based products. And so I think that had, again, talking about, I think his protein intake had such a significant impact on his ability to recover. And I can't emphasize that enough, like, yes, we can talk about carbohydrates for performance. But the protein, and probably the combination of the protein and the carbohydrates, was what allowed Elliot to start to train consistently day in day out and recover with less muscle soreness, less aches, and pains. So that for me was it was a big one again, he was taking in at some times, he was taking in over three grams per kilo bodyweight of protein, which again, yeah, we monitored, obviously, renal function with blood tests, and he was working very well with his doctor, his MD. And we got repetitive, you know. We probably had blood testing every quarter, to ensure that there were no issues with that. And all that tended to happen was his blood tests improved, to be honest, and we monitor things like obviously, iron. Iron panel was important for vegetarian athletes that we monitored. His ferritin levels, his hemoglobin levels, and made changes with that. I do believe he was supplementing with heme iron supplement for a period of time, and he still may be supplementing with that. B 12 was monitored because that, again, is typically can become low with vegetarian and certainly with vegan athletes. And he supplemented with B 12. That's from the daily sort of nutrition standpoint, I think, for him, the timing of fueling and understanding his pre and post-workout nutrition was just critical to him improving. So there's probably this Ultra Man mentality of low carb, high fat. Yeah, that he didn't understand how much carbohydrates he needed to perform at his best. And so in as much as the carbohydrates, it was probably just total calories, as much as anything and learning to consume just huge amounts of food and calories, and bumping up his total caloric intake to 400 to 500 calories an hour. And seeing you know, once you get past three hours continuous exercise, it doesn't matter what you're taking in. Carbohydrate oxidation, fat oxidation is going through the roof anyway. So it was just like calories in for him and him learning to assimilate those calories and be able to take them in and train his gut and train his body to actually practically eat that amount that that was why it took again, so long, but was such a process. And again, like, you know, I didn't mention how many tests Kinga did I think she did 30-odd sweat tests and 30-odd carb tests. Elliott has gotten, I can't even count. It's probably over 100 sweat tests, 100 carb tests where he just records all the data because he just wants to understand and know exactly how much he's taking and how much he's losing. And he is an incredibly high sweater. Like you talk about an issue insomeone that's doing Ultra Man. I mean, his sweat rate, I think is over 1.6 liters per hour. So him, and he didn't have any real understanding about how much he was losing in terms of sweat rate, so we had sweat tests at the start where he was losing 4.5% to 5% body weight, which becomes an immediate issue if you're talking about prolonged exercise. It's fine probably okay, if you're talking about Olympic, maybe even 70.3. You might be able to finish but you'll obviously be dehydrated at the end. You're talking Ironman distance and double Ironman distance, you can't do that. You're going to crash and burn. So his improvement or his upscaling in the in the area of knowledge around hydration and how to manage that was again a key factor and we can get into the nitty-gritty of that as we go in. But that was yeah, that was, those were probably the major learnings I think. Protein, total calorie intake during training and pre and post-training and then his sweat management, were probably the three biggest learnings for him as an Ultra Man older athlete.
Matt Dixon 1:05:01
So Mike, you actually, it's actually fantastic sort of lead-in here because there was such extensive testing, planning and one of the only positives of COVID, you have this long runway to go through this educational process. But on top of it, you were core support for him. So you were there all three days, helping him live and implement this program. So I guess, I'd love to understand from you how you learn, and then helped Elliot adopt and apply this into race day as well.
Mike Olzinski 1:05:36
Yeah, absolutely. It was really great real-world learning and application. Got to see it firsthand. And when you're in that environment...like I saw Elliot, and his brother, Brian and I were just... our job was, A to make sure he didn't get lost and B to pump him full of calories and water. And when you can truly see it happening, hour to hour, and day to day, It was, to me, it was fascinating. It was fascinating. So we had a really, really structured and solid plan, just hour to hour what he needed to get done. And that was the gels, that was the salt. And that was water, and or a couple extra calories through Coca-Cola or something like that. And so that it was easy for us, because we just had the stopwatch and, hour one, hour two, hour three, we needed to make sure we got this much stuff in, even if he didn't really feel the need for it at the time. If he was undershooting, we're just making sure he was getting it in the system one way or another. And he did do a great job with that, too.
Matt Dixon 1:06:44
And I'm curious as you went through the days, is there any time that you adapted or went off script so far as what you know, you planned gel and, maybe it wasn't a gel, I know that's very simplistic, but whether you had to sort of recreate or shift things?
Mike Olzinski 1:07:00
Absolutely. Like in, with those, I mean, we're talking 11 hour, 10 hour days, so a lot of times we just kind of built-in the lunch. We built in a snack. We built in some protein that was just around in a sandwich, some beef jerky, like not beef jerky, that was for me. I was eating beef jerky. Other like just high protein bars and stuff like that, that we were kind of building in. And as he felt like, if we were, if he was feeling low energy, we maybe gave him a little higher caloric intake. And if he was feeling like just high heart rate or like he was breathing too heavy, we would just maybe take a little break, cram some water and electrolyte into him and then get back on track.
Scott Tindal 1:07:42
And just to just to clarify on that Matty as well, like his target, so what he had been training at was, he was averaging 120 to 130 grams an hour of carbohydrates on the bike. And that was the goal that was to be implemented. So he was taking that in through a combination of gels, blocks, bars, as well as liquid, where the liquid contains electrolytes and some carbohydrates. And the reason we didn't use a lot of carbohydrates. I mean, because with Ultra Man you're not having that run off the bike, especially on day two, you can tend to go to a higher concentration, carbohydrate fluid, and manage it that way because you don't have that mechanical stress with the run off the bike. So I think he had a structure like he had a chart to mark his point like he had charts for each day, which was broken down to the hour. And actually, it was broken down to every 20 minutes of what he should be consuming on that. And you're talking about going a little bit sideways, dinners were the one thing where if I was going to plan it again, that would be looking at what restaurants and what was available in the area because on day two, for instance, he I mean, he had to eat just pizzas. And I don't have a problem with that because it's just calories and if you want to pick a food that's got a hell of a lot of calories in it then go like with a double pepperoni or whatever he ended up having. And I think he had, I think he chose two pizzas and he got through one and a half but you know, he's like, "Was that a problem?", and I was like, No, that was not a problem. Like just go. I would have expected a tub of Ben and Jerry's at the same time. So, it doesn't have to be perfect nutrition. You know for the purpose of fueling we talked about just getting calories in. It was the one thing I emphasized to Mikey and to him. You know, for those post-session fueling on those days was just calories. Doesn't matter what you're eating, just get the calories in. Keep it very refined, in terms of quality. Like you know, go high glycemic stuff, use ice cream, use pizza, use bread, use pasta, whatever it is, but he just needs to get you know, typically 1,000s of calories in posession.
Matt Dixon 1:09:49
I remember Tim Dear, my athlete did Bad Water, another very challenging long run and 35 miles to go on 135-mile race, he ate nearly a whole pepperoni pizza during the race, so his support crew gave him that because that's what he needed. That's what he had to have.
Mike Olzinski 1:10:05
Oddly enough for us. The pizza was too healthy. The better choice was like we had french fries and an impossible whopper. And that was the winner when it was brilliant. It's weird. The opposite of what you would think unhealthy eating, but in that moment, after the bike ride, getting ready for the next day, the calories, the protein, the carbohydrates from that, and the salt, he felt actually pretty damn good. The next day, you know? It's amazing.
Matt Dixon 1:10:32
To finish the show, how did he do?
Mike Olzinski 1:10:35
Well, Mr. Block, he...proudly the oldest competitor at Ultra Man, Arizona, and he wears that with a badge of honor. That's an honor. So he officially won his age group. He's the only one over 60 to finish. We're very proud of him. And he didn't just do that he finished 23rd overall, as the oldest competitor with like almost 50 athletes. So he did fantastic. He biked the second day, 11 hours and 38. It's a 12-hour cut-off, for the record. And then the third day, we were looking to sneak in under 12. And he finished the double marathon in 10:44. Which, I was just like, really, really genuinely impressed with how he handled that third day especially. It was intense.
Matt Dixon 1:11:27
Wow, that's, I'm just thinking about that because a double marathon is 50...yeah, that's good. Yeah.
Mike Olzinski 1:11:38
And your warm-up is 170 miles the day before, I mean...
Scott Tindal 1:11:43
And then 90 miles on the bike the day before that. I'm sorry, but like running at 10:44 double marathon after you know, what, 260 miles of bike, it's like, at 61 years of age? Very impressive.
Matt Dixon 1:12:00
That's terrific. Guys, thank you so much. That was so fascinating. And so interesting, and we learned a lot. And I think I should say well done to, well done team. Well done you guys and thank you for, for your help Scott in all of the Purple Patch athletes and thank you Mike for being such a big part of Purple Patch. And congratulations, your coaching journey continues and you are helping athletes shine in sport and life which is always great to see. So really appreciate you guys coming on the show.
Mike Olzinski 1:12:33
Thank you kindly.
Scott Tindal 1:12:34
Thanks Matty. And Mikey, thank you. Thank you to you for leaning in. I think it's always so nice to have a coach like yourself, who does that.
Mike Olzinski 1:12:45
Well, I think anytime, I'll close with saying, anytime you listen to the best of the best in business or in sport, whatever it is, when they're asked like how it feels or what they're grateful for, it's always talking about the team and the program and I believe what we have is a fantastic team. And I'm happy to be a part of it.
Matt Dixon 1:13:09
Big hugs all around. Take care guys.
Mike Olzinski 1:13:11
Thank you.
Mike Olzinski 1:13:12
Thanks. See ya.
Matt Dixon 1:13:23
Thanks so much for listening. This has been the Purple Patch podcast. If you like what you hear, we'd really appreciate it if you share with your friends and even go the extra mile and head over to Apple podcasts, subscribe rate, and review the show. The Apple podcast link is in the show notes. Your support and positive reviews go a huge way in increasing our visibility and also the exposure to time-starved people everywhere who want to integrate sport into life and ultimately thrive. Don't forget, you can also follow us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Cheers.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
coaching, purple patch, nutrition, habits, performance, success, triathlon, time-starved, athlete, ironman, ultraman, training, performance, build, stresses, sessions, plan, listening, program, fatigue, journey, adapt, Scott Tindal, Mike Olzinski