Episode: 350 - The Susie Orcutt Case Study: Lessons in Coaching & Coachability

Follow the Purple Patch Podcast at:

APPLE PODCASTS - SPOTIFY- AMAZON MUSIC - GOOGLE PODCASTS - YOUTUBE

Welcome to the Purple Patch Podcast!

Matt Dixon hosts the Purple Patch Podcast from the Hawaii IRONMAN training camp, featuring Susie Orcutt, a busy Mother and Physician's Assistant from Atlanta. Susie discusses her journey with Purple Patch, highlighting her coaching relationship with Nancy Clark and the challenges they faced initially. Susie emphasizes the importance of communication and trust in coaching, noting her significant improvements in performance, including winning her age group in an IRONMAN 70.3 and improving her rankings at the 70.3 World Championships. She also credits the team environment and the bike classes for her growth, particularly in bike handling and fueling strategies. Susie advises athletes to clearly define their goals and be open to feedback. Susie explains her decision to join Purple Patch after outgrowing her previous coaching relationship, focusing on longevity and avoiding injuries. Susie's journey involved multiple conversations with different coaches to find the right fit, emphasizing the importance of finding a coach who sees potential in her. The relationship evolved, with Susie learning to adjust workouts based on her feelings and not just metrics, fostering a more holistic approach to training.

If you have any questions about the Purple Patch program, feel free to reach out at info@purplepatchfitness.com.

Episode Timecodes:

:00-1:05 Welcome

1:30-4:30 Open

4:35-9:52 Susie’s Background

9:52–15:52 Susie joining Purple Patch Fitness

15:52-56:00 Training at Purple Patch

56:00 End-Tips for 2025

Purple Patch and Episode Resources

Check out our world-class coaching and training options:

Tri Squad: https://www.purplepatchfitness.com/squad

1:1 Coaching: https://www.purplepatchfitness.com/11-coached

Run Squad: https://www.purplepatchfitness/com/run-squad

Strength Squad: https://www.purplepatchfitness.com/strength-1

Live & On-Demand Bike Sessions: https://www.purplepatchfitness.com/bike

Explore our training options in detail: https://bit.ly/3XBo1Pi

Ready to book a consultation with Purple patch? Sign up: https://www.purplepatchfitness.com/coachingconsult

Live in San Francisco? Explore the Purple Patch Performance Center: https://center.purplepatchfitness.com

Everything you need to know about our methodology:

https://www.purplepatchfitness.com/our-methodology

Amplify your approach to nutrition with Purple Patch + Fuelin

https://www.fuelin.com/purplepatch

Get access to our free training resources, insight-packed newsletter and more at purplepatchfitness.com

Transcription

Matt Dixon 00:00

Today's show is shot on location at the Hawaii Ironman training camp, and I have a wonderful interview with the Purple Patch athlete Susie or cut it's a great show, but as you're going to find out, we talk a lot about coaching relationships. We also even dive into her journey into Purple Patch, which included a host of external consultations and other components like that. So as you listen to the show, if you'd like to get in touch at all, and if for any reason whatsoever, it's info@PurplePatchfitness.com, we do offer consultations to athletes that are not coached by Purple Patch but want a little bit of guidance and support, just as Susie did at the start of her journey. Or, of course, one of our coaching programs, we reference both her start of her journey, which commenced with the tri squad program, very, very popular, where the majority of Purple Patch athletes are and where we really dig in, which is one to one coaching. It is an inspirational show. Susie does a great job in the interview. Really interesting stuff that emerges a lot around what it takes to be coached to get to the outcomes that you're looking for. I hope you enjoy the show. It is the Purple Patch podcast. Cheers. I'm Matt Dixon, and welcome to the Purple Patch podcast. The mission of Purple Patch is to empower and educate every human being to reach their athletic potential. Through the lens of athletic potential, you reach your human potential. The purpose of this podcast is to help time starved people everywhere integrate sport into life. And welcome to the Purple Patch podcast as ever, your host, Matt Dixon and today, well, if you're watching the show and not listening, you'll see behind me palm trees, beaches and some lovely blue sea. Yes, I am at the annual Purple Patch Hawaii training camp. It has just kicked off. We're a day in, and I'm bringing you today a wonderful interview with a Purple Patch athlete named Susie or cut so who is Susie? What terrific human being. She's based out of Atlanta, or just south of Atlanta, and she's very busy and time starved. She is a mum of three boys, quite ironic. She is one of four girls herself and her and her husband owns multiple LLCs, very, very busy. Got lots going on in her life, and is also a physician's assistant, but over the course of the last year, her journey with Purple Patch has really offered up so many lessons around coaching and personal progression. In this interview and discussion, we unpack how she had to navigate challenges with her coach, Nancy Clark, and together, they went on a journey to foster better communication, heighten trust, so that they could both develop and improve. And what came out of that was a wonderful year of personal growth and progression. Oh, and, by the way, some really good results as well. In the first time ever this year, Susie managed to win her age group in an Iron Man 70.3 event that was at Western Massachusetts, she was fifth a 70.3 muscle man. She had improved rankings at the 70.3 World Championships, including after a rather disappointing swim, charging through the field, moving up more than 200 places on the bike ride, which used to be kind of a discipline for her, but now is a piece of strength leading into how she developed her bike riding skills. A lot of it is anchored in mindset and a complete commitment to transparency, communication and diving into the coaching process. So if you are a coach, I think this is a wonderful episode to listen to, because what Susie goes through is a great offering of what it means to truly coach someone and also be willing to adapt your style and communications so that you can get the athlete what they want. And I'm incredibly proud of her coach, Nancy, for doing just that. And if you're an athlete, well, this is what it means to be coached. Susie offers so many lessons, and it's such an interesting discussion, I won't say any more. I'll just let you have at it. Susie Orca, Purple Patch, fitness a testament of what it takes to be coached on a performance journey. I give you the meat and potatoes. All right, yes, we are in the meat and potatoes, and today we have a very special guest with us. Welcome to the show. Susie orga, pleasure to be here. It is lovely. We are in well, let's just say we are being very brave right now, because if you look behind us, if you're watching the show today, you can see the palm trees behind us. We are at the annual Hawaii training camp. It's ready to get going with a big week of training ahead, big week. Where are you nervous for it? I guess that's the first question.

Susie Orcutt 04:51

Excited and nervous altogether. My children call that sky did, scared, excited.

Matt Dixon 04:56

Oh, there you go. All right. So we might, we might average that this week. Well, we. Going to dig into today. I wanted to show I've been really eager to have this conversation for quite some months, because over the course of 2024, on the Purple Patch journey, we got to have a lot of fun at some training camps last year and and I want to dig in today your some of your coaching experience and your performance journey over the course of the year, you had a breakout year last year, and had some great performances, and I think some really wonderful personal growth. And so I think that from your story, there's a lot of lessons, actually and and hopefully we can share through your story some wisdom and some bits and pieces that maybe people can pull into their performance journey while we sit here in the humidity of Hawaii. So if you're ready to go and locked and loaded, we're going to get rocking and rolling. You good with that. All right, that's it. So as I always like to do with guests on the show, a little bit about yourself. So why don't we ease into this? And I'd love to know I do detect, and it's ironic that I'm saying this being English, but I do detect a little bit of an accent in there. So tell the listeners where you grew up, your family, where you live now, all of the good stuff and all the foundational stuff.

Susie Orcutt 06:10

So I'll try to speak not as slow as most people from where I'm from, but I grew up in a small town in south Georgia, one of four girls, so predominantly female environment, but very athletic, very active family now, my husband and myself and my three bonus sons, we live south of Atlanta,

Matt Dixon 06:28

fantastic and and as you growing up, so were your your whole family? Were they always athletic? Did you grow up doing different sports? What sort of sports did you

Susie Orcutt 06:39

do growing up? I grew up in a very active family, so we snow, ski, water ski. Did some cycling, but as far as organized sports, I played basketball and I ran track, and then I was a dancer. Were you really? What type of dancing Are you? So my parents wanted me to be well rounded, so I was I ballet, toe, jazz, tap, but I focused in on tap in college and danced at the University of Georgia.

Matt Dixon 07:05

It's funny, and here we go, on my tangents and detours already, but over the course of my many years of coaching, I've actually got to coach quite a few ex dancers and ex professional dancers, and it's amazing the typical athletic ability and the sense of awareness and where, obviously, and it's not surprising, but body is in space is really fantastic. And whenever they're, you know, trying to help them with even swimming technique or riding technique, typically, there's really good hand eye coordination that's going on there. So it's interesting stuff. What about endurance sports? I mean, you grew up, obviously, with your family doing riding and things like that. But when did you first find triathlon? Tell the story of

Susie Orcutt 07:46

that. Triathlon was adult life for sure. About 12 years ago, I transitioned into triathlon. My husband and I were looking for something different. Another challenge, I was the typical repetitively injured runner from over racing, and I did like to lift weights, but it was time to try to find a new goal, other than just faster half marathons. So we stumbled across triathlon, and someone was like, you should try, but I'm not a swimmer. I could not swim the length of the pool. So it was a challenge to take on, but we started and never looked back.

Matt Dixon 08:23

So you're you're more than a decade into the sport, and why didn't you just, and this is always the Pandora's box where people love to go on for 10 minutes, but just give us a little snapshot of your experience, your your races, you've done, maybe a couple of your key results.

Susie Orcutt 08:41

So I started with sprints because I couldn't swim, and I spent a lot of time on my back praying that I could get to the ground. I did sprints in Olympics for quite some time, and then transitioned to my first 70.3 just to see if I could do one. And if I did one, that would be good. I finished the first and then I wanted to see if I could get better. So over the course of the past 10 years, I would do maybe one a year, and then probably about five years ago, I really got into wanting to do more and more 70 point threes. I've had some good, blessed results of being able to be at World Champions a couple of different times than on the podium some. So the past couple of years have have been good years for me. Yeah,

Matt Dixon 09:27

you've, I mean, you've gone on a journey of development where you you are a podium athlete. That's That's fair enough, and and races, and then you've qualified and race very well, as it turns out, particularly in in New Zealand, at the recent 70.3 World Championships. So under the banner of Purple Patch, you are coached by one of our senior coaches, Nancy Clark. And I'm going to talk a lot about Nancy today. She coaches you, but I'd be really interested. I always love to ask this question, what was the catalyst of John? Winning Purple Patch. Why did you you were in a coaching relationship before, that's right, yeah, and then you decided to jump ship join Purple Patch. Was the motivation, if you can think that.

Susie Orcutt 10:09

So I feel very grateful for the coaching relationships I've had up to this point. I have very solid coaching relationships that poured into me and gave me different foundational principles. At the close of last year, I was battling, just overall under fueling honestly, now that, now that I've had some time to to process it, and I needed to take a little bit of a break. So I took a break from my coaching relationship at that time, who was actually a friend of mine, and I just needed to kind of step back and get some insight into nutrition. I felt like at that point in time, I didn't only want to be a triathlete. I wanted longevity. As I'm in my 40s ish, I realized that I want to be competitive, that I want to have longevity. I want to be able to do lots of things. I hike with my children, although they're not really children anymore, I just didn't want to be injured. So we my coach at that time, and I both decided it was time for me to kind of take a step back and get some other insight. And I've been listening to your podcast for quite some time, so at that point in time, I thought I need some education surrounding what's going on with me, not necessarily at the first call interested in coaching. Specifically, the first call was actually to Tiger to get insight into your squad. And just I wanted sort of a baseline program. But also, how do I connect with this resource of knowledge? This is what I'm at. I am having this struggle, this struggle. What do you suggest? And she was very, very helpful in connecting me with multiple coaches at Purple Patch. I spoke with Brad. The conversation with Brad led the conversations with Marsha that led to conversations with Nancy, because she had an expertise in female athletes. So it was this combination of months of different conversations with different coaches that ultimately made me feel like this is the group I need to be with.

Matt Dixon 12:08

That's it's we're going to come back to that. I'm going to hold on that question. But that's, that's, it's a great journey in is it wasn't like, Oh, I'm just going to go with them. It was actually these incremental ways that you, you met Tiger, and then you went on to Marsha, and then to Brad, and finally to Nancy. So So I want to dig into, let's get into the nuts and bolts a little bit. And one of the key things that I want to talk to you about is the coaching relationship. And I think a lot of people, when they start a coaching relationship, anchor their perspective and mindset around the specific workouts. So I hire a coach. They give me the plan I do, the plan I get faster. And that's sort of the sort of perspective. And I have never thought about coaching like that, and I want to dig into it today, particularly as and you course correct me if I'm wrong or if I sort of am providing or projecting my point of view as we go through this, but from my side, and I obviously oversee the Purple Patch coaching, I'm managing and supporting the coaches in the initial months of your coaching with Nancy, I would label as challenging. Is that fair enough? Would you? Would you resonate with that? Or Yes, and so can you share, perhaps your early struggles on that side? Sure,

Susie Orcutt 13:30

I think I came into the conversations with Nancy with a tall order in a lot of ways, in the sense that I didn't want someone just to put in my workouts if I just needed workouts. I was getting workouts through the squad. I can just get squad workouts if I just need training. Peaks and in my prior coaching relationships, that was not, it was not a I was flourish. I mean, I was getting faster. It wasn't that wasn't my goal. So I wanted to know what else I was going to get from her? What was going to separate her out from other coaches that I'd had? What was she going to bring to my journey in a way that was more than just, here's your workout, you turned it green. You didn't turn it green. Moving on to the next. So I, at first, was very reserved. Just just try to let her come to me with what she was going to bring. So very quiet, you

Matt Dixon 14:26

wanted more, and you were very quiet. And it created, was it almost it wasn't misaligned expectations in a way there was, but there was a communication gap there. Yeah, that way, two ways, is that is that way you think about it, and, and, and you mentioned something before, around turning the workouts green, etc. Now that we've gone through this journey together as a team and with you, I know the answer this, but your prior coaching relationships were very metrics based, yeah, so they were, they were anchored. Of primarily around assessing the validation, the success, the failure, the challenges of the workouts, by the metrics, and pretty much it so explore, explore that for me a little bit. I

Susie Orcutt 15:12

think I am metric driven in general as my and I think that that probably has led coaches leaning in because I like to know, and this has been something Nancy and I have worked through, but I like to know I got it right. Yep. So you wanted me to be here in this zone, this zone, I did it. That means if I successfully do all the workouts in those zones, I'm going to be ready to go race day. So I built my belief and my trust a lot around feeling confident lining up on race day, that if everything was green, then I was going to be good. So there was a lot of that that actually, I have found out over the past year. It's really more it was more of something I brought to the table than I would say is something that a coaching relationship had had brought to the table. I've got to

Matt Dixon 15:59

ask the question now, and I'm going to sort of skip to the end, has that evolved? Because that is an incredibly challenging thing to emerge out of, where I always call it the pass fail, like check the box mindset, if you want to call it that, and I don't mean it in a diminishing way, but that is that sort of obviously a part of your DNA, in a way, it's your psychological makeup. That's how you've done it before, and you've been successful so that you know so but you want something more. Do you feel like now, as we're going into 2025 that you've evolved not beyond that, but to a broader perspective? Now, yes,

Susie Orcutt 16:37

it is something still very challenging for me. I have learned that it can be shackling on both ends of low end high end. I still like ranges, and there's still importance to them, but I've gotten to be where I am more upfront about how I'm feeling, and know that it's okay to adjust the metrics based off of how I'm feeling as I'm trying to navigate this 40 ish life. The 40s come with a different set of things for men and women, but definitely for women and having a relationship where I can say, and I can allow myself to say, this is how I feel. What does that mean for our workouts? Instead of here are your workouts? Because I I like to just know I wanted the whole week in training peaks, and then look at it. And then I would maneuver everything around, because I wanted to make sure she wasn't going soft on me. And if I said I'm not feeling great, or it was I'm feeling however, that then she would dial it back. And that's not me. I want. I'm going to go all out all the time. And so I would play Tetris with things a little bit like I can. So

Matt Dixon 17:45

I have trying to work the system to get to why, where you want.

Susie Orcutt 17:49

So it has evolved in the sense, in lots of ways, in that, in the coaching relationship of figuring out how to dial in, in my own self, how I feel. I'm the kind of person that, if you ask me how I feel. It's always fine. I'm fine. Everything is fine. I'm gonna make it I but that's not gonna help very much. It's not gonna help Nancy know how to coach me better, or to get the most out of me, not only in sport, but also in other avenues of my life, where I was coming in short from fatigue and lots of other things. So it's been a gradual process of trusting. If I tell her how I feel, she's still going to design the workouts to get the most out of my body where it is, and I still will be able to do and chase after the bigger goals that I have. But it's been a it's hard for me to not look at it, but on the on but it has. It is coming along, and I'm developing other adjectives other than fine. Yeah,

Matt Dixon 18:45

exactly so, so, and it's probably no surprise to you. I didn't tell you before, but I talked to Nancy, and I actually asked her for her thoughts as we went into this discussion. And I asked Nancy to reflect back on the the early months that the biggest challenge was asking Susie, how do you feel? And I always just got the same answer. I'm fine. So what do I do with that? Every day is completely neutral and absolutely fine, but you know, the only way for you and any coach for you to get to a place. And I think you said that so succinctly. Ultimately, it's the coach's job to help you get the most out of your body. So you obviously, collectively went through a process where you actually built some trust that that's that's the only and from that trust, it empowered you, in many ways, to to actually say I'm actually a little bit tired, or this is how I truly feel, rather than fine, because that that's for me, the I'm fine and gaming the system to get. More, but it's, it's your strength, it's your commitment. You know that that's actually a superpower, and it's always, always, always, it's very similar, actually, to when, when I work with the high world class athletes, they have the same thing. I'm always ready to go. Don't worry. You know, it's no surrender. It's all of that side of stuff. But it's also the biggest weakness, in a way, and it's, and it's a paradox, but it's always true. I'm really interested. I'd like your recollections of how you and Nancy and us work through the challenges initially. So how did you get through this? What were some of the moments for you? Nancy's coaching style, sit down discussions. Support from me. What? How do you recollect that it was

Susie Orcutt 20:45

actually several things that led to the first, I would say, crack in the door that then we began to open more. I went to Napa to be able to train to meet some of the other athletes. And I actually went there with the idea of, I'm going to go meet everybody in person and see how it works. How does this how does this all work? As far as I was still trying to wrap my mind around the team coaching, and how does it all really work, and who does what, and who do I talk to those kind of things. Who do I click with? And I think when you're looking for a new coaching relationship, I need to feel like the coach sees something in me that I don't see in myself. Yet, I need to feel like I don't know I'm chasing a potential that's there in my life, whatever that is, whether it's athletically or it is in a more broader perspective and being a better version of myself. And I need to feel like a person sees something in me that I don't yet see in me, that we can go after together to unlock, and I was hoping in face to face encounters, because I'd already been doing a lot of the video things, that I would be able to sort through that a little bit. And I did. I met a couple of athletes that was having dinner with one night, and one of the female athletes looked at me and she said, if you went to get your hair done and you didn't like the way that they did your hair, would you just keep letting them do your hair that way? And I thought that's kind of got a point there. So she encouraged me to talk with you about how I felt as a general rule about Purple Patch and coaching and what was going on, and ask you for guidance. And that was one of the the opening of the door, I think, to getting me to be able to think maybe you would be receptive have another athlete say he cares more than ever. He's not just someone on the other side of the screen talk with him, but I was more of an observer. I'm going to just observe and see what happens. I wasn't sure I wanted to be an active participant. Yeah, and we were out riding our bike the first day on the bike, I would say, was the icebreaker with you. We had the hill repeats, and I was very nervous. Felt like, wow, I don't belong. I'm just an average Joe that works really hard. That's how I see myself. And so I was kind of in the back of the pack and managing things, I thought. And you came up behind me and you said, I see this all the time. I see athletes that don't think they're gonna make it, but you're gonna make it. You have to believe in yourself. And you put your hand on my back, and you were like, we've got your back. And there was just something in that moment of the sincerity in your eyes that made me feel like he cares. He cares that we're here. So if he cares that I'm here, I should lean into that. Yep, and that progressed to more conversations on bikes through the week,

Matt Dixon 23:50

conversations on bikes, that's for sure, to

Susie Orcutt 23:54

one when I thought I was really gonna fall off my bike because I had no gears left on the climb, and you brought up how I was feeling about coaching, personal coaching, one on one, coaching, did I have concerns? And I expressed to you that I did, and that I wasn't sure, what if this was the right fit for me or not the right fit for me. And you asked for me to give you the opportunity for us to have a conversation, not on bikes surrounding it. But also you took that opportunity when I was breathing very heavily, to talk to me about Purple Patch coaching. Yep, you talked to me about your perspective of how you coach, but also the other coaches, how you instruct them to coach. And they all, they all obviously fall within the umbrella of Purple Patch, but things like, how often do they provide feedback? How often are they in training peaks? I had never heard of those types of things. Training peaks was the way I had always communicated with coaches outside of in person, meetings that I had with my coaches. So to hear. Your perspective on feedback specifically, really got my wheels turning. And

Matt Dixon 25:07

you mentioned earlier, and you've talked about this a little bit, but it's, it's a departure, and change is always uncomfortable, you know, it's always different. And you had to go through that, that experience, and you just painted such a sort of lovely way of doing it, but it is a little bit different of a coaching system. And we are a real team. And you know, from and that that team, by the way, it's not just top down from me, that the Team Drives me and makes me better, and that, that's what I feel, that that's it. But that must have been the fact that you've had a one to one coaching relationship with someone all the way through your your career, up till now, and suddenly there's this broader coaching environment that must have been really challenging to almost, uh, wrap your head around.

Susie Orcutt 25:58

Yes, it's like when you have one on one coaching, most situations are set up where your one on one coach is writing all of your workouts. So if there's a swim workout in my coach wrote that, well, that's not really the way that it works. There's a swim specific coach, which is a wealth of knowledge, and it's an amazing thing to have, and really the best way to get all of the you have this hub of all these experts that have their niche, and it's like you want to be the jack of all trades you and I have but there's this umbrella of everyone understanding and communicating, but it's a very different approach to coaching to be able to absorb Okay, so how does that work? If she's not writing my swim workout, how is she sure that I'm getting what I need, and it's not just and what's the difference between the tri squad exercise or workout for the day? And what mine is, is there a difference? So we spent quite a bit of time, I would say, me talking with you and all the other coaches to start to really begin to try to understand how that all works, and that you guys meet together and talk about things, you talk about us as athletes to make sure that you're getting the most out of us. But it was a learning curve, I think, too for me, I stepped away some from I was obsessed with feedback, that I need feedback, and I think a better verb that I've learned within my own self and just delving into my own personal thought processes is, do I just want feedback, or do I want advice? Which is it? Feedback is kind of like your reflection. When you talk about us reflecting back in our Sunday special, that's great. Reflect back, gain some information. But what I really want from my coaches, here's what happened and what we see together happen. How do we come together? And what advice do you have so that I can grow and build this week? This is what happened last week. What are we going to do to make it look different this week, or next race, or what have you so a lot of change of my thought process that just took a lot of time for me to step back and look inside myself.

Matt Dixon 28:04

It's a good time to ask you this, which is, what is success? What do you what are you chasing for? Because you're you're not you're a competitive triathlete, you're successful. You just had a great year. We celebrate it, but you're after more than that as well. So can you explain to me what success you're a little bit of your why, and, and, and maybe what. And then I want to come back to talk a little bit about the Napa camp and fueling and some of the experience there. So we're just going to plug that in, but, but give me your your why a little bit. Oh,

Susie Orcutt 28:37

I do want to say one important thing. When you asked about how I began to open up and talk a little bit when we had a meeting, we had a group meeting with myself, you and Nancy, yeah, it was probably one of the most stressful things I've ever encountered,

Matt Dixon 28:57

because I do that to people don't

Susie Orcutt 28:59

want to sound mean or but I also wanted to be very honest. And I think if you have something to say, needs to be honest, and we both can grow. And Nancy showed zero posturing when we were talking. She definitely wanted, I felt in that she wanted to hear what I had to say about how things were going. She was not defensive. She was very professional. But more than that, she showed that she really cared. And she said, I really want to what can I learn as a coach, even if it doesn't work out that we ever end up being one on one coaches, what is something? And she created sort of this psychological safety zone, so to speak, where I felt like this is a safe place where we can both be honest. I asked her what she needed from me. She asked me what what she could do more of and that feeling honestly like a safe zone, helped me begin this. Say things other than fine.

Matt Dixon 30:02

I'm really glad you brought that up, because I specifically remember that meeting. I remember sitting in that meeting. I remember almost every word of that meeting, and I remember walking away being highly impressed with you as an individual and Nancy as an individual, as a human being. I was like, that was quite amazing. It was really brave. And my respect for Nancy as a coach went because it's very hard to get feedback of this doesn't feel like this is really working yet, and that word's important, it doesn't feel like it's working yet. And this and it was honest, it was clear, it was direct and and it wasn't mean, like what you were saying. It wasn't at all. It was just like this. The only way that we can grow is, if I'm really honest here. But the natural instinct for any human being is to get defensive and, you know, try but, and it was just, it was just welcomed. And that's actually the meaning that when I left, I thought, there's opportunity here and and it was a big catalyst of why we're talking right now, which is, which is amazing. So, so, yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up. Let's go to to my question. Let's talk about your your why a little bit? Because it's not just about getting

Susie Orcutt 31:19

faster, is it? No, it's not, I don't think that's actually a byproduct. I think all athletes want to be faster, but as you climb and things happen, if you had asked me five years ago, would I ever be on a podium? Would ever make Top 10 of any 70.3 I would have been like No, hands down, I am not in that league. I'm just going to be consistent, work hard and see what happens, and I find so much clarity and about who I am when I'm doing sport, and learn so much about life lessons in sport that I then apply in life in life in so many different ways. And that's really one of the reasons why I do it isn't just because I I want to be first or third or fifth or whatever. Those kind of things are fleeting moments for any athlete that's ever achieved something you thought you weren't going to you get there and it happens, and you're like, Whoa, that happened. And I don't celebrate well, people that know me would say, I don't really say very much about my results as a general rule, because it's just that it's a moment of, well, that was kind of cool with what's next, what's what's next. And we always want to be what's next, and at some point in time, you're not going to be any faster, you might have to pivot and do something different. But for me, I think each one of us are made for something more than what's within ourselves, and one of my biggest purposes is to feel like there's a reason why this sport continues to be in my life, and I continue to dig to find out what the more is and the more has to be beyond me. Maybe that's me pouring into another individual. Maybe somebody can pick up some positive thing from being around me, but it has to be about more than just what's within myself. It has to be about other people and what they can grow from or maybe learn from through me in the sport. But that's what gets me up going is that it's still a drive to figure out the more

Matt Dixon 33:24

and what were the going through, this coaching evolution, this building of this coaching relationship, in a way, from something that was challenged to something that has progressed, and it's still a work in progress, as we talk about it, it always is. But what were your biggest lessons this year? How did you grow this year as an individual out of that experience?

Susie Orcutt 33:47

That's a big question. Really big one. Well, I grew in a lot of ways. I think I have learned a lot about kindness, and there is a lot of kindness in sport, more than what other people might think. I feel like we can be competitive and kind and we can grow, and even if something isn't perfect and isn't exactly what you thought it would be or should be, as we're still working through things, but there's potential there for it to be something more than you've ever thought it was going to be. And I've learned a lot about taking time. It's been really hard to not say fine. And I never thought it would be so hard to tell someone I don't know. It felt okay. Did it feel good? Did it feel bad? I'm like, I've always just been fine. Everything is fine. And just being able to use an adjective other than that to describe how I feel in a day, it's been huge feeling being able to open up in a safe space and grow and see growth on the other side as well. I. And you talk all the time about finding a level of being uncomfortable and simmering in it. And one thing Nancy and I have done is I am a deep thinker, quite analytical, and I like to have what's a focus point, what's something we can work on mindset this week. And turns out she actually is, has that component to her more than you would know, because she's quite quiet, and finding mindset, things that we both have in common, and talking about them, and one of them is surrounding that it's a topic about building a bigger container, and it's about sitting you reach a point where you feel uncomfortable, and how long can you sit in it? Well, that's also been in conversations. It's this is uncomfortable. Yeah, I'm

Matt Dixon 35:49

so I'm enjoying your discomfort.

Susie Orcutt 35:54

My neck can turn Yeah, but I feel like, if one person can find within themselves the courage to speak up in a kind way and know that it's okay to say how you feel, and it's okay when something isn't working. It doesn't mean that the coach is bad or you're bad, or you're being mean or not. It just might not be working, or maybe you just haven't given it enough time to see if it's going to work. And we're working to big, build bigger containers in lots of different ways. And I feel like that's I've learned a lot about sitting in uncomfortable places this year. That's

Matt Dixon 36:33

where growth occurs. So That's music to my ears. I want to go back to performance improvements last year, because you You did really upper level in many ways, and the most important areas we just discussed, I think, but, but there are some other components that go beyond your relationship directly with Nancy per se, and there were some other things. And I want to ask what your biggest shifts or or opportunities for growth that you feel like were catalysts for better performance, physically, mentally, broadly, whatever it applies. And I'm going to lead you to the first one, because it really comes back to a camp experience and some observations you made, and then work that you and Nancy did. I'm going to, I want to ask you around fuel in first because that, I think that was a huge backbone of your up leveling this year. So why didn't you tell the story about how you found fueling? If you want to call it

Susie Orcutt 37:32

that, well, when I came to Purple Patch in the beginning, it was because I knew I was falling short a big portion of my races, I take in nothing when I run prior to this past year, that is, and having a lot of issues with throwing up, dehydration, cramping, and I I always made it through. I mean, I grew up running where you just drink water, and so my body had been programmed to be able to push through. But I realized, and actually my former coach and I had this conversation after I had a race that ended up with cramps and Ivy's, that something has to change, because whether this might not be just about your performance, but this is going to catch up with you in life, and at some point I'm going to have a health consequence for how hard I am pushing with no Fuel and no hydration. So when I got to, you know, around all the athletes, and I'm watching what they're eating, I was like, I don't, I don't eat like that. I don't. And Brad was like, that lettuce isn't gonna do it. He said, Is that what you're eating? I'm like, it's a salad. There's protein, there's vegetable. He's like, not for what we have in store for you tomorrow that's not you need some bread, and that's been an ongoing conversation over the year. And so I had signed up with fuel in on my own during some of my initial conversations with the squad and those kind of things, and I thought I was using it appropriately. So I pull it out at camp with Brad and Nancy first, and we were looking over and something didn't add up. So you reached out to Scott Tyndall at fuel in, who then reached out to me as well, and I set up a consultation with him to really begin to dive into what fuel is appropriate for me in and outside of my workouts, and started this, this journey of way you need to eat some toast and some bread. And that's been a big joke with Nancy and I like, add some toast to your meal. Add some toast because I just historically didn't eat a lot of carbs outside of fruit and vegetables. Fruits and vegetables, yeah, and switching up. I had hydration testing, sweat testing to determine better hydration, because I tend to have a lot of cramping issues, switched to some precision products because Scott wanted me to break out carbs from electrolytes. So we could start trying to figure out what is causing the nausea, what isn't I don't have a gallbladder, so that creates some problems. Have ulcers, like different things within my health. To begin to work through trying things, and then I had to try them, which was when he sent me the number of carbs to eat on the bike. I i I sent a message to, actually, Brad and Nancy, and I was like, I, there is no way I can do this, because I took in like, three gels on the bike. Like,

Matt Dixon 40:32

that's it. That's it. It's a big shift, and it was huge. Yeah, did, um, did seeing the other women at Camp give you, it gives you a shock to begin, like a surprise, of like, goodness me, they're, they're eating a lot of calories, but it did. It also give you a little bit of, pardon the pun, but fuel of confidence. So far as, okay, well, this, this is maybe the way it's done. I think, as a

Susie Orcutt 40:59

going back some to the time period where I grew up dancing as well as running, yeah, and just the mindset around food and fuel and all the things and body image, and lots of lots of issues around lots of female athletes. I didn't, I didn't struggle with an eating disorder or anything like that, but definitely, probably a disordered eating mindset around what does my body really need? And able to do this because when I ran track, we didn't eat, we drank water occasionally, and that was the norm. And there was a big shift of looking at what this is the norm. And I was around athletes that I'm awestruck by, how they're phenomenal athletes. When I showed up at Napa, I'm like, these, not anywhere in the same league with these women. And this is how they eat, to fuel their bodies, to do what they want them to do. And they're not overweight. They're not there. This is what their body actually really needs. Yeah, and I would order something, and one of them would be like, and you need this on top of that, and you need this, and don't forget that, and just seeing that they nor would normalize that type of food fuel. This is what your body really needs. I would eat a piece of toast with a little bit of nut butter before race. That's it, which didn't go very far, and really how much you leave on the table, not really just in performance, but just in how you feel. I told Nancy, I just would like to finish a race and not feel, feel to please so bad and feel like I need, you know the emergency. But I I ended a lot of racist, severely dehydrated. I didn't usually go for an IV, occasionally at you, but very bad cramps and just I'm not able to perform the way I wanted to. But more than that, taking days to be able to function normally again, I

Matt Dixon 42:58

want to ask a question around team and community. Wait, I mean, we are Purple Patch geographically dispersed. It's fair enough. You're you have the well earned nickname of Georgia peaches from me, and we'll maybe get into that a little bit in a few moments. But what's the role being beyond the Purple Patch, coaching team, the broader team, the community, the other athletes you mentioned that the women at camp, has that played a role in your journey over the course of the last year? Yes,

Susie Orcutt 43:28

for sure, you know just as important, if not more, than developing into what this coaching situation was going to be, because I said initially, my mindset was more squad oriented, talking with Tiger, trying to connect with people all over, all over when you're in your basement, training alone during the cold months, to have that two way platform, to have comments come through of the hub while you're while you're working out, or maybe after you're not encouraging you. It was important. But just some of the people that I met at Camp continued to stay in touch. How what race do you have coming up? How are you doing? How are you feeling? Just those types of no one asks how fast you're going, yeah. And rarely does anyone ask if you won or not. It's beyond that. It's how are you doing in life? How are your workouts meshing in with what all you have going on? And that it really was not performance driven in a lot of ways, although we all are seeking performance gains. That's not the bigger, broader purpose, which was refreshing in that I feel like results are just a bonus. I didn't. I had a good race in New Zealand. I'm not. I finished standing up, right? But was it the race that I wanted or that I think that I trained for? No? Mm, hmm. But it was so much more than that, and the lessons that I learned, and actually someone from camp was there volunteering, and he and his wife were waiting for me when I came out. Oh, why? They found me. They set up a little cheering session on that terribly hot Hill, and they were waiting for me. They didn't care how fast or slow I was going. It was just the support that tends to find you wherever you are. What

Matt Dixon 45:26

the last training side of the the puzzle that I want to ask you about is is our Tuesday, Thursday, bye week, or twice weekly sessions where I get to see you, you and your in your Georgia basement, me in my San Francisco studio, but the bike class, and I want to talk about that as a as an element for your journey. And here's why I specifically want to ask you, because you arrived metrics based. And ironically, this is a, ultimately, a metric space platform and so and yet you have evolved so much as a bicycle rider and and how you ride your bike as you as I sort of watch you go through the camp experiences, I'm looking forward to seeing you up in this terrain here, but you have undoubtedly become a better bike rider. And I want to talk about those bike classes and what the catalyst of, I don't want this just be a promotion of, you know, Purple Patch and bike like something special, but, but I think I, my sense is that you really drew from them to become a better outside rider. So that that's really the question, how was that like? What? What What was that? What was the core elements of you specifically around metrics as well?

Susie Orcutt 46:46

That platform has just the Tuesday, Thursday classes in general, have transformed my training in lots of different ways. I think at first I didn't really even understand the metrics exactly, like, oh, this needs to turn green, or this, if this is blue, that's really bad. You need to work hard trying to learn it. But then having you on the other side of the screen talking through the why behind each it's not just oh, here's a little block, and it says that your Cata should be this and your power should be this, but you're talking through why it needs to be that and why we're doing what we're doing, and then your verbiage of picturing what it would look like if you were outside, and I've had some injury and realized that riding at one cadence all of the time is not what's best for my body, nor is it a good speed return. Yeah, but really developing different tools, and you do a great job of explaining why. I'd never really done, done big gear work, but not se work the way that we do it there. I actually saw Purple Patch athlete on the course in New Zealand, and we were on a big climb, and she came beside her. I'm like, This is what SC is doing. Is a velocity you can get to the top, and it builds the confidence when you're talking about what it looks like outside, that when I get outside, I hear what you said, Oh, interesting. And I know, yes, that I can get I can do this. And then you did this in Napa, but it definitely translated from velocity using different tools in different parts when you feel bad, yeah? And you always say, if you feel bad, switch the rhythm. Switch the rhythm in some kind of way, whether that's cadence, power, stand up. Never stood up on a bike till I was with you,

Matt Dixon 48:31

right? Well, that's what you never stood up on a bike. And I

Susie Orcutt 48:35

do know, but I hadn't before, yeah, those and I still, I think one time when I felt that pushover, once you feel it, once your want to feel it again, like catching the wave it is, and being able to have that, I push myself pretty hard. I'm not really ever concerned about, am I going to bring my best to this workout? However, when I've had to do FTP tests and things like that in that environment. I know there's a little bit more that comes from you are in the screen saying, add one more gear and don't stop and slow. And you're this close. It feels like even though you're across the country from me, and it is definitely leaves me in a different place, but it leaves me energized, and I miss it tremendously when I can't do the live class, because I feel like I get more out of that workout when I'm in the live class, not just your coaching cues, but just in the community of people and comments that are, yeah, it's a

Matt Dixon 49:33

shared sense of mission and purpose. I mean, it feels like it's for us in studio, and so I'm coaching just for you as listening at home. I'm, I'm coaching live 20 people. And there's obviously the human interaction in person, but then there's 2030, 4050, people, remotely, of which you're, you're one. Interestingly, in the studio, the people at home are, for me, as much of it, you know, they're, they're immersed as. Much of the experience as the person that's sitting right next to me, and it's a such, a really special thing to coach, because it's really strange. You've got people in South America and Denmark and London and New York and Georgia, and then you've got us in San Francisco, and it feels this connection, and I think that really uplifts everybody's individual performance. And it's like because you're in it together. It's a team component. I want to ask one element to it, because you arrived at such a metric space person. And one of the cruel things that we do with this platform is we might be going through a set of rolling terrain. So in the system, it's simulating the grades in the descent. And I might ask, be asking for a particular output. I want to be riding a very strong effort, and then we remove the dial so you don't get any feedback at all. I'm just really interested. Was that jolting for you? Was that a challenge? Has that been valuable? Has it been annoying? And that's the blind riding, as we call it.

Susie Orcutt 50:58

It has been so much value. It was very hard. Yeah, typically, in the beginning I was red because I overriding because I didn't want to be blue. Yeah, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 51:12

You don't want to fall short. I'm going to do something I want

Susie Orcutt 51:16

to Yeah, but I think to the way that you talk through the workout again, applying it to what we're doing outside, also just the way that your body posture should be. You say those things over and over again, check your posture, don't carry the garage all these things. And I hear them on Tuesday, then I hear them on Thursday, and then sometimes on Saturday, and I hear them when I go outside, because you've done such a good job of talking us through what it should look like outside. And those that common verbiage of posture and cadence and effort and those verbs, it just comes in your mind, and the blind part that I think that was the hardest, but yet the most rewarding. You do this flow. If

Matt Dixon 52:04

you're watching this right now, it's true

Susie Orcutt 52:08

to dance when you tell us to find that zone three and find the flow and be able to sit in it and figure out how it feels. And then you make it go away in the blind, where you close your eyes, and if you're really trying to see what it's going to be at like outside, you start like, how is my Well, I did. How was my breathing? How does my cadence feel? How do I feel sitting in this and I'd never really done that before because I'm trying to chase a number. Or am I staying in the Power Zone? I need to be and those kind of things, and trying to find that flow in the rhythm when things don't feel good, it does take a lot of practice, but you do, we do it over and over and over again to beat it when we go outside and I had an interval to do, I'm trying to find the flow, and I'm trying to find the rhythm, find the rhythm, and Maybe I have to switch it up sometimes, but find the rhythm and the confidence that came from that repetition of live class to I wasn't particularly pleased when I got off the water in New Zealand, other than I was glad to be out of the water and when I got on the bike, I'm like time to ride my bike like Purple Patch. Ride my bike like I've been riding my bike and you taught me this.

Matt Dixon 53:23

Just go ride your bike. Just go ride your bike and

Susie Orcutt 53:27

just ride your bike. And that's not really think about, can I run off the bike? I wasn't really sure how it was going to feel. But just ride your bike and ride your bike well. And it's different than ride your bike and heart rate this, or ride your bike and power zone this, feel it and ride your bike, and it's going to feel lots of different ways. And finding the confidence of finding that, that flow, and it's in my head,

Matt Dixon 53:53

so I can't help but go into coach mode, that the big part of it is so many coaches and athletes are so anchored on just the outputs. So what's coming up on the screen? What's coming up with heart rate? It's the obsession of what the inputs are. And if you can really control the inputs and get a deep sense of the inner animal, as I like to do it, the outputs tend to improve. And because you're able to organically, naturally, habitually, ride with good form, ride with good flow, stay more supple, rather than just chasing an output that might be there but might be done with very tight body, or whatever it might be. So really deploying that and and it becomes more fun, by the way, because it's free well,

Susie Orcutt 54:43

and to the I realized that, um, riding Hills is much more fun. I actually enjoy climbing a lot more than I used to. And I when you're trying to chase a number on a climbing hilly course, you're you're just gonna feel mentally depleted. Did because you're either way too high, and then you down shift and you're just spinning, and then your heart rate goes up too high, or vice versa, whatever it might be, but it's, it's not fun at all. Yeah, you're just looking and like, Oh, am I there? And if I don't stay in this zone, then I'm definitely going to bonk on them. And when you encouraged me to, I added on last minute race to just go try to see what, what's going to happen. I never gone to race completely solo. Had a lot of support to do so by my local community prior coaches, everyone, but you said, just go ride your bike and don't worry about anything else. Just ride your bike hard and see what, see what happens. And it was fun. It was

Matt Dixon 55:43

fun. I want to ask one last question, which would be, you've gone through this amazing journey of growth and development, and I think it's really inspirational, but for folks listening, not just athletes. It's not just gonna be athletes listening, but athletes and people that care about their performance. What advice would you maybe give them, as they're looking to elevate in 2025 if they're willing, looking to up level? What? What would be your 123, pieces of advice.

Susie Orcutt 56:18

One big piece of advice is really think through what it is that you're looking for. Define it clearly. Am I looking for a workout plan? The majority of us are not, because you can find workout plans anywhere. Spend some time, and it's very hard to really map it out, but spend some time and think through what it is that you really would want from someone. If I were the coach, and I could script out my dream Coach, what would that look like? What all would it entail? And it's going to change depending on where you are in life in general, and it also means you have to let go of some control sometimes and trust someone else, but really spend some time and write out what it is that you think you want. What is it that you need beyond workouts? Because most of us that are looking for a coaching environment are looking for something more than just a workout plan. So that would be one thing for sure. Another would be have the courage to speak up. Yeah, advocate, yes. Speak up, and know that you can be kind and competitive and you can be kind and direct and in the right environment, it's going to be receptive if you're around people that want to grow and learn. And I think that that's important, that that aligns with your value. I think I'm a person of a growth mindset. I'm want to grow as a person, not just as an athlete, yep. And if you are around other people that want to grow as individuals, then they are going to be open to to kind honest input and feedback and advice

Matt Dixon 58:02

when we know. I think, I think you're fantastic, and I also think that you are a person that has massive growth ahead of them still, and I don't think that you're anywhere near the level that you're going to get to athletically, but beyond that as well. And and I think it's going to start this week, and I can't wait to challenge you this week, because I know that you're equipped to take on the challenge and grow from it, and I think that you're a fantastic testament of what it means to be a Purple Patch athlete. And I really appreciate you being so honest and open on this conversation. It's not easy, and and the fact that you share your story the way you have it means a lot, and I really, really respect you for it, and I thank you for being here. Thank you. Thank you very much for joining us. Of course, thanks for having me. Take care, guys. Thanks so much for joining and thank you for listening. I hope that you enjoyed the new format. You can never miss an episode by simply subscribing. Head to the Purple Patch channel of YouTube, and you will find it there. And you could subscribe, of course, I'd like to ask you if you will subscribe, also share it with your friends, and it's really helpful if you leave a nice, positive review in the comments. Now, any questions that you have let me know, feel free to add a comment, and I will try my best to respond and support you on your performance journey. And in fact, as we commence this video podcast experience, if you have any feedback at all, as mentioned earlier in the show, we would love your help in helping us to improve. Simply email us at info, at Purple Patch fitness.com, or leave it in the comments of the show at the Purple Patch page, and we will get you dialed in. We'd love constructive feedback. We are in a growth mindset, as we like to call it, and so feel free to share with your friends. But as I said, Let's build this together. Let's make it something special. It's really fun. We're really. Trying hard to make it a special experience, and we want to welcome you into the Purple Patch community with that. I hope you have a great week. Stay healthy, have fun, keep smiling, doing whatever you do, take care.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Hawaii training camp, Purple Patch, coaching relationships, Susie Orca, personal growth, Ironman victory, age group win, 70.3 World Championships, Nancy Clark, communication challenges, fueling improvements, bike handling, team support, performance journey, athlete mindset

Carrie BarrettFebruary 19, 2025